Fallout Equetria PNP

[icekatze]

hi hi

No matter which way you slice it, having sorta sharper talons isn't anywhere on the same level as sonic rainbooms, buccaneer blazes, telekinetically tossing hellhounds into the sky, or being able to predict what bad ponies are about to do based on a complex series of twitches and shudders.

[Kashin]

While this is only tangentially related to the current debate, I feel it is worth bringing up. Everyone seems to forget that most unicorns are VERY limited in their magic options and those spells that they can use are tailored to enhance their special talent. So a unicorn doesn't need to be a proper caster like Twilight or even an off caster like Rarity or Velvet to use their racial bonus. A mechanic may not be able to heal, make shields or breath balefire, but they could magically med cracks or even fabricate minor parts making them vastly more potent at their chosen skill. This could even apply to combat as a markspony could have an inate spell that functions like SATS, telepathically guide their bullets or turn their eye into a magic scope.

As for pegasi, the ability to use the single most versatile substance in Equestria, clouds, makes them worth while on its own. (seriously, they can be used as cover, produce water, generate energy, have the durability of steel if treated properly, create complex electronics and all while being as malleable as clay) ground a pegasus forever, as long as they have wits and clouds they will be balanced with everypony else.

As for griffins, one word, thumbs. I see griffins as the ultimate generalists (being able to function in three dimensions and having hands puts them above earth ponies who I see as the ultimate specialists), they may only be able to be unrivaled in unarmed combat, but they have such versatility that they are rarely locked into a single course of action.

I think my point with this is that folk aren't thinking of the various uses that some of these abilities have beyond the obvious. And all the race's power moves require (or should require) so much sunk into them that they balance themselves out with the things that they needed to pass up for it, making them one trick ponies, it is a hell of a trick, but still just one.

[Kashin]

As for griffins, one word, thumbs. I see griffins as the ultimate generalists (being able to function in three dimensions and having hands puts them above earth ponies who I see as the ultimate specialists),

Actually I would like to expand this statement to include all pony races; they each have unrivaled ability to do one thing and that is it. If you want to be the best at something play a pony, if you want to be able to do a wide range of things be another race.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Pegasi cloud use is very versatile. I see that being on the same level as Unicorn telekinesis, a spell that just about every unicorn seems to know and is very versatile, much more versatile than thumbs even.

When it comes to that little bit of magic that relates to somepony's special talent, most of what we've seen in the show is through Rainbow Dash, who's special talent is going fast. I imagine there's a whole lot of different pegasus tricks out there that relate to different special talents, as Pinkie Pie said "some are fast, and some are graceful."

I'm ok with the idea that other races are generalists, but how do you represent that in game terms?

[Kashin]

I'm ok with the idea that other races are generalists, but how do you represent that in game terms?

Simple; give them racial perks that provide smaller bonuses to more skills or fields. ex. Gun Nut (universal perk) +5 guns, +5 repair (total benefit 10). Marksmare (pony only perk of my own design.) +10 to guns when using single shot weapons (total benefit +10, but in a more limited capacity). Talon veteran (griffin perk of my own design) +2 guns, +2 explosives, +2 melee, +2 unarmed, +2 energy weapons, +2 big guns (total benefit +12, but spread out over many skills.)

as for the tk vs thumbs, that is true, but thumbs don't need focus to use, are far less tiring and can be used on things you can't see, yet again, power vs utility

[icekatze]

hi hi

As an artist, I can assure you that many things require a great deal of focus to use thumbs with. On the other hoof, TK can pick locks without seeing the tumblers or needing tools. Even Rarity eventually learned some magic that didn't relate to her special talent.

Everyone can get skills, Lilpip had 4 different skills at maximum out by the end, and after reading up on Fallout 3 and NV, it looks it is entirely possible to max out all of your stats and skills by the end of the game normally. If you wanted to make skills be a particular race's bonus ability, they should probably be able to raise them to a higher level than anyone else, and/or get bonus skill points all the time.

Specialization vs generalization is often a wash when it comes to usefulness, so if their bonus is going to be generalization, they need to be really good at generalizing in order to make up for having the loss in variety that cool pony magic abilities bring. I mean, Lilpip only really knew one spell, and she managed to use that in a mind boggling number of creative ways.

[Kashin]

As an artist, I can assure you that many things require a great deal of focus to use thumbs with.

No argument there, its just that you can do something absentmindedly with thumbs, less so with magic.

On the other hoof, TK can pick locks without seeing the tumblers or needing tools.

well to be fair that is actually a Littlepip exclusive in the story.

Even Rarity eventually learned some magic that didn't relate to her special talent.

Thus my inclusion of her as an off caster. That actually bugged me quite a bit as the show implied that she shouldn't be able to, but she is an element barer so I can let it slide without a fuss.

Everyone can get skills, Lilpip had 4 different skills at maximum out by the end, and after reading up on Fallout 3 and NV, it looks it is entirely possible to max out all of your stats and skills by the end of the game normally. If you wanted to make skills be a particular race's bonus ability, they should probably be able to raise them to a higher level than anyone else, and/or get bonus skill points all the time.

Specialization vs generalization is often a wash when it comes to usefulness, so if their bonus is going to be generalization, they need to be really good at generalizing in order to make up for having the loss in variety that cool pony magic abilities bring. I mean, Lilpip only really knew one spell, and she managed to use that in a mind boggling number of creative ways.

Yet again we are comparing the everygriffin with the single most powerful telekinetic since Celestia. If we are working on that scale I would try comparing an uber hunter, coated in trophies that she got by grabbing a great white shark by the tail and using it to beat a dragon to death.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Look, I really am sympathetic to the idea that Griffins are generalists, but surely a +2 bonus to unarmed isn't going to make the difference between success and failure when grabbing a great white shark by the tail and beating a dragon to death with it.

It isn't just Lilpip. Look at the abilities the Wonderbolts had, look at the abilities that Red Eye's unicorns had, stable 101's earth ponies invented cybernetic implants, even pre-goddess Trixie learned an invisibility spell. It wasn't necessarily easy, but difficult times require people to rise to the occasion.

In my experience, people tend to sink into routines. Even with as broad of categories as Fallout's skills cover, people tend to stick with a favored weapon, favored tactics, etc. I typically play generalist characters myself, but when I'm playing in a party of other people, I still need a role to play so I'm not just sitting back and watching the specialists take care of everything.

Maybe Griffins get more action points than ponies do? So even though they're not as proficient in any one thing, they can do more things overall?

[Kashin]

That is true, and the 50% discount they have to picking up objects makes them the best grenadiers and throwing specialists out there

[icekatze]

hi hi

Are we talking about unicorns or griffins? Twilight Sparkle was able to grasp and manipulate over 100 different individual apples, Rarity was able to grasp and manipulate over 20 different individual objects simultaneously, and random unicorn waiters were able to manipulate at least 4 different plates simultaneously.